Samantha 0:00
Today I’m joined by storyteller extraordinaire, Kaycee Racer, a young adult author, devoted reader and retro media podcaster. Kaycee is the author of two heartfelt contemporary YA novels that capture the ups and downs of growing up with authenticity and heart. Influenced by childhood favorites like Sweet Valley High, the Babysitters Club and Ramona Quimby, Kaycee’s love for stories only grew stronger with the sweet friendships and romances of Sarah Dessen and Meg Cabot. In addition to her writing, Kaycee co hosts nostalgic nightcaps, a podcast where she revisits and dissects the pop culture classics that shaped her youth, creating fun and meaningful conversations with listeners. In this episode, we’re diving into romance tropes, why we love them, the ones that make our hearts race, and how they’ve evolved in both YA and beyond. Whether you’re here for the slow burns love triangles or second chance stories, you’re in for a treat. Let’s get into it.

Samantha 0:56
Welcome to Creating joyful readers, a podcast dedicated to empowering secondary educators with the tools, strategies, and inspiration to cultivate a lifelong love of reading in their students. I’m your host, Samantha. Tune in each week as we explore the transformative power of independent reading. Delve into the latest research on literacy, dissect projects that will help your students showcase what they’ve learned in a unique way, and share curated recommendations of young adult novels that will captivate and engage your learners. Join in as we embark on a journey to create joyful lifelong readers, one book at a time.

Samantha 1:34
Hi Kaycee, welcome to Creating joyful readers.

Kaycee 1:37
Hi Sam, thank you for having me.

Samantha 1:40
Let’s start off by telling everybody why you are qualified to talk to us about YA romance tropes today.

Kaycee 1:46
Well, I am a writer of two contemporary YA books, so I’ve worked a lot within the tropes that are, you know, tried and true classics, and I’m also just an avid reader, I still love a good YA book, YA romance. I feel like I’ve been really diving into the romance tropes for decades now.

Samantha 2:12
And you also do some work with YA in your podcast as well. Correct?

Kaycee 2:19
Yes, I do. So I have, I have an old podcast that I used to do called To All the YA I’ve Loved Before, which is, you know, based on the title, one of my favorite romance YA books that has one of my favorite, my favorite tropes, which is fake dating. So that’s why I chose that title. But we would, you know, analyze and critique the YA books of yesterday and today, and we still do so on our new podcast, where we have a book club every last Thursday of the month, and still like to celebrate those kinds of books from the past.

Samantha 3:00
Nice, can you tell us what tropes you see in your YA books?

Kaycee 3:04
I definitely do a lot of opposites attract a lot of friends to lovers. I like, you know, the real the real simple, the real classic ones, but I do love to read the more like forced proximity and the you know, the enemies to lovers and all of those things.

Samantha 3:24
Awesome. Well, I’m super excited to talk about these with you today. Let’s start off by telling our listeners what is a trope and why in the world do – you know every author uses them, but this is really specific and unique to the romance genre. Basically, they use them every single book. I don’t see books that don’t have them at all, whereas you have other genres where they can use them sparingly, but they don’t have to use them every single time. So let’s talk about what they are and kind of like, Why? Why they use them.

Kaycee 3:58
Definitely. So romance tropes are kind of the the building blocks of stories. So it’s kind of to draw the reader in, to have them know, like what, what they’re getting themselves into. And I would say it also builds this emotional connectivity with storytelling, because it creates these universal experiences, but also takes them and places them in very unique situations.

Samantha 4:29
Yeah, that’s a great explanation for it. And so why do romance authors use them specifically?

Kaycee 4:35
I really think it’s to reflect those universal experiences with readers. I think that when you’re choosing a book to read, you kind of want something that you connect with, but also something new and fun for you. So it takes both of those elements, and I also think it just helps readers make choices about what they want to read.

Samantha 4:58
Yeah, that’s a great explanation. I was actually thinking about this. I’ve been talking a lot about the happy and, you know, the happily ever after, because one of the hallmarks of the romance genre is that it has to have a happily ever after, or it’s not a romance. And some people hate that, because they’re like, Oh, it’s so predictable. You know, why would you want to know what’s going to happen in the story every single time? And the answer is, because you know it’s going to end as happily ever after. And so for people who – maybe you’re reading to escape, right, and you’re you’re not reading to give yourself anxiety or give yourself a sense of dread, or maybe sometimes you are, but today, I don’t need to feel that. Today, I’m not in a place where I need to give myself panic attacks. So let’s go ahead and, you know, maybe have a romance, and you know, when you pick up that book that that’s what you’re going to get. And I love thinking about that. And same I think that goes along with the tropes too, right? Like, you know, you know what you’re going to get. And the other thing that I have to defend when I’m talking about trope is that, as a writer, tropes actually make it sometimes more difficult to be able to write a story. These are not a cop out. You know, it doesn’t make writing any easier, because you actually have to fit the story within the confines of these dynamics. And this is how the romance genre is set. So they use these tropes. They use these – you have to have a happily ever after, and sometimes that does make it more difficult. What do you think?

Kaycee 6:27
Oh, absolutely. I really like what you said about the comfort reading, because I think that romance as a genre is looked down upon by a lot of readers. I just recently saw on Twitter this woman who read like 110 books, so proud of herself, very cool. And all of the replies were like, those aren’t real books. And I was like, Ah, I think that they are real.

Samantha 6:52
Oh my goodness, yes, I agree. And I, you know, I’m a romance reader at my core, and I do a lot of listening to authors talk and talking to authors. And I think that, you know, romance is coming into its own in the past couple of years. I mean, Book of the Month, book of the year last year, or even, was a good reads, book of the year was a romance. I think it was good reads last year was a romance. And so they’re kind of trying to, you know, break into the hey, we’re real books. We you know, we work just as hard as everybody else. So I love that you said that, and up to that person on Twitter, romance books are definitely books, and they count towards your count.

Kaycee 7:34
Absolutely.

Samantha 7:36
Otherwise, I don’t know how many books I was last year, like, two,

Kaycee 7:41
Exactly. Okay, great, but, yeah, I think that the comfort is really the – I think that that’s what makes it work, the tropes work because you really do want a book that you’re just you know that at the end, you’re going to be happy and fulfilled, and you’re going to fall in love with the characters just as much as they’re falling in love with each other.

Samantha 8:03
Exactly, and it makes you warm and cozy and it makes you happy, it gives you hope that the world can be better. And that’s what I love about romance, because, listen, we all need a little bit of something that shows us the world’s going to be better, right?

Kaycee 8:18
Absolutely.

Samantha 8:21
Okay, okay, so we’re going through a list of tropes today, and we’re going to talk a little bit about whether or not we actually like the trope, and then we’re going to talk about a book or two, or, you know, however many we get into as we’re chatting that shows the trope really well. So if you have students in your classroom, or if you’re a librarian listening, or if you’re just a YA fan, and you’re listening, and you’re like, I really like this trope, or maybe you’ll find some tropes that you haven’t read yet that you might really enjoy getting into. So the first one we’re going to talk about is forbidden love.

Kaycee 8:50
That’s the classic, you know, the Romeo and Juliet. And, you know, I consider Romeo and Juliet a very much a YA novel,

Samantha 8:59
Oh yeah, for sure, like, nobody meets and falls in love and over a 24 hour period of like, 40 so, YA. This is also called the stars cross lover trope as well, because I’ve seen it call that a couple of times. I wanted to mention that just in case anyone’s like, where is that? That’s the same thing as Forbidden Love. So, are you a fan?

Kaycee 9:20
I am. I’ve always loved a forbidden than love. I always wanted to be in a forbidden love.

Samantha 9:26
How many modern day situations can you get yourself into?

Kaycee 9:31
It’s really a trope of the past so when they do it in the present, it’s just, I love to find a book like that.

Samantha 9:39
It’s difficult. I haven’t seen any or maybe even any done well, that would be in the present time.

Kaycee 9:46
Yeah. I mean, even the last book that I think I read with this is from 1996 and it’s a little mini series in the Sweet Valley High universe. And it’s two rival schools, Jessica Wakefield falls in love with a boy from the other school, and it was one of my favorite little mini series in the whole series.

Samantha 10:07
I feel like it’s been around for a while. So my book that I chose was The Ballad of songbirds and stakes and so,

Kaycee 10:14
yes,

Samantha 10:15
well, it’s not necessarily. I don’t even know if they I think they do give a year, but it’s so dystopian that I don’t know if it matters what the year is, but that was definitely Forbidden Love, because she is in a different group of people, and he is in the, you know, with the government or whatever. And so that’s one of the last ones I saw that I thought was done really well. And not only that, had such a crazy ending that I was like, Oh, this is crazy. Like, What a twist on Forbidden Love.

Kaycee 10:45
Absolutely, I didn’t even make the connection that that was forbidden love, but I remember reading the book and watching the movie, and I was just like, I love this. I haven’t seen anything like this in a long time, and it’s because of that forbidden love element that you don’t really get to see in contemporary YA as much.

Samantha 11:01
Right. And you can do that when you’re bending the genres, when you have a romance that’s also fantasy or dystopia, whatever you know? Okay, so, a check, check. We both like Forbidden Love. How about friends to lovers?

Kaycee 11:13
Oh, absolutely. This is one I like to play with a lot in my writing as well. Because, you know, I mean, how many teenagers would love that situation to happen? So organically, you fall in love with your best friend who maybe like your next door neighbor. It’s, it’s just one of those ones that is really authentically teenage.

Samantha 11:37
I agree. I agree with that. That’s so true, because I can’t tell you how many situations I’m in as an adult, where I could get into a friends to lovers situation at this point in my life. But as a teenager, I mean, you’re constantly in proximity with all kinds of, you know, people who you can become friends with. So I write this one as well. I didn’t mean to. I never meant to, but everything I’ve written so far, the characters, because, if you’re listening in, I hobby write – I’m not really like, I don’t do it as a, as a full time job or anything like that, but I co write with my best friend, and the characters that I focused on in our series ended up friends to lovers without me even really meaning to do that. So I like it. I think it is very also, you know, uniquely teenage. Sure it could happen as an adult, but I think it’s less likely. So I want to say I like it. I do, but also like it’s not my favorite one. I guess I’ll say that. Did you have a book that you like that you think it’s done well?

Kaycee 12:38
So this is a classic YA novel, but it’s Annie on my mind, which is like one of the first queer novels that I ever read, queer YA novels. But these two girls meet at a museum in New York City, and they become fast friends, and then it escalates from there, and it just the way that their friendship develops in you know, as their romance develops, I always just thought that was so sweet.

Samantha 13:06
I have a romance unit – I taught a romance unit in my – I taught young adult literature for a couple of years at my old school, and that’s one of the books that we always brought up as an example of sort of like classic yA and how the genre would change. So I love that you brought that one up. I have to make a nod to like, two years ago, I fell in love with this book, and I would not shut up about it. I told everyone that I could think of about this book, and this is Some Mistakes Were Made by Kristen Dwyer. She only has two YA books out, and let me tell you, I adore both of them so much that anytime anyone asks them, like this author is it – she is so good. But this one specifically, oh boy, it’s it’s angsty and it’s swoony, and you just get so enraptured by their story. And they were true childhood friends to lovers, and you know, her life was a little rough, and his was a little bit easier, and kind of the differences between that and how they still found each other through that, I love it.

Kaycee 14:12
I love that. I I’ve only heard of her as a as a adult romance writer, so I’m gonna have to check that out.

Samantha 14:19
I adore her, and I hope she puts out so many more, so many more novels. I’m just – I keep waiting for an announcement. I’m like, where are your next books? I’m waiting. Okay, so next we have the classic enemies to lovers.

Kaycee 14:33
I mean, yeah, this is, this is my jam more than any other trope, because I love a little teasing meanness, not too much, because you can go overboard to it, oh for sure, where I’m like, I don’t think these two like each other at all, but I like that, you know, middle ground where two people are just kind of not getting along at all, and then they find – they slowly find themselves being more and more attracted to each other. And a lot of the meanness in the attraction as well.

Samantha 15:02
What book did you pick for this one?

Kaycee 15:06
I picked my mechanical romance by alexand Farrell, full mood, and she does this in such a great way. And it’s based around, also girls in STEM this creative girl on the on the robotics team, and he’s, you know, more uptight and more methodical and more mathematical, and they just find themselves like connecting over robots and each other. And it’s very cute. I one of my favorite books that I read last year.

Samantha 15:35
I have heard so much about her writing. That is Olivi Blake, I believe right? That is her, YA pseudonym. I’m pretty sure, I’m almost positive, yeah, someone could fact check me out there if I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure I’m right, because I have meant to read the new one. Well, the newer I don’t know if she has one after this, but 12th Night, yeah, I and I never got to it, but then someone put it on my – I do this like challenge, where people suggest books for you to read every year, and so somebody put it on my list for this year. So I’m excited to get into her YA, because I love her adult love. She’s fantastic.

Kaycee 16:11
Yeah, she’s a great writer.

Samantha 16:13
That’s a great pick. So I kind of went both directions. I like when they really dislike each other. It makes me laugh. So the ones I picked for that were the cruel prince that series. Goodness gracious, they did not like each other I mean, I think she stabbed him at some point, or slit his throat or something. I mean, it was, it was real, like they really didn’t like each other. And then I picked the powerless series as well. Hated book one. I say this all the time. Hated book one, but Book Two, oh my goodness, it was so good. It was just the enemies to lover just sizzled. It was fantastic. So if you can get through powerless, to get to reckless, totally, totally, love it. And I’m excited. The third one should come out this year, and hopefully it’s good. I don’t know. We’ll see. We’re one for two, so we’ll see. I picked divine rivals as well. Have you read that one?

Kaycee 17:09
I have not.

Samantha 17:11
You see this in fantasy a lot, so I feel like everything I’m picking here is fantasy. But then I did pick one that was just kind of like bantery, which I think is more the ones you’re talking about, which was tweet cute by Emma, Lord, that one is cute. I love that. It’s one of my top, my top romances, YA romances, probably of all time. It’s so good. So, yeah, I think we’re both check check on enemies to lovers. It,

Kaycee 17:35
Oh, definitely.

Samantha 17:37
Okay, so the next one, and I put good girl, bad boy, but I it could be good person, bad person. I’ve never seen it done. I don’t think I’ve seen it gender swapped, but it totally could be. I just don’t think I’ve seen it, have you?

Kaycee 17:52
Um, no, not really. I would say I would like to see more good boy, bad girl.

Samantha 18:00
That would be fun, right? Yeah, look at us getting story ideas right now. The wheels are turning.

Kaycee 18:04
Wait a minute.

Samantha 18:07
What did you pick for your for your choice?

Kaycee 18:09
Um, I don’t know. I don’t really, I didn’t really have a specific one. I was kind of thinking of. I think Sarah Dessen uses this trope a lot, but the boy most of the time ends up not being like, real bad, like, a sweetheart underneath it all. Yeah. Definitely make it forester of someone like you. Is this trope and he is not nice?

Samantha 18:31
Yeah, I picked two words. Nate McCullough from one of us is lying – I love him.

Kaycee 18:38
That’s a good one.

Samantha 18:39
I love him, him and Bronwyn, yes, and they carried the entire series, I think because I read the third one, and I was like, the only reason this was good was because of Nate.

Kaycee 18:49
Yeah, oh, absolutely. I think that we had this discussion. I we were like, there’s too much going on, and Nate was the only thing we liked.

Samantha 18:56
Yes, Nate carried the series, and he is my favorite bad boy, but not really, actually,

Kaycee 19:02
no, he’s a sweetheart, underneath it all

Samantha 19:04
I think most of them are. I think that’s like, what people like about the trope is that they’re not really bad but I think that’s not a great life skill for teens. I don’t know that you should be chasing bad boys because you think there’s like, a sweetheart underneath. Yeah, probably not great,

Kaycee 19:21
I would say that when I was a teenager, this was, like, one of my favorite tropes. And then looking back at those books, as I do, I’m like, Oh, this is not a good dude,

Samantha 19:34
yeah, don’t we don’t recommend that as a practice for teens, but in books, it’s fun, yes, the love triangle,

Kaycee 19:40
I would have to say this is my least favorite.

Samantha 19:43
Oh me too. I thought I was gonna because everyone’s like, Oh, I love I have so many friends that love a love triangle. Yes, I hate a love triangle. Hate. Hate.

Kaycee 19:52
Same especially, I hate it if two of the people that you have to choose a tweet are like siblings. ,

Samantha 20:00
Oh that me too. I hate, like all of the ones that are so popular, like the samurai turns pretty gives me the ick

Kaycee 20:10
Yes, and I love, I love Jenny Han, like her so much. But I and I read all I did read all of those books,

Samantha 20:17
me too,

Kaycee 20:18
and I hate this so much, but I have to keep reading.

Samantha 20:22
Did you have a particular side that you were on?

Kaycee 20:25
Um, no, because I didn’t want her to be with either one of them.

Samantha 20:29
Yeah, no, it would have been better if she would have just gotten rid of them at some point. Um,

Kaycee 20:32
because how awkward are family events after that? That’s all I could think of that.

Samantha 20:37
Yeah. And like, you’re getting through the book because she almost married one of them, and then, like, oh, sorry, spoiler alert, but I wouldn’t tell you which one. So there we go. Yeah, um, but like, I was, I was team Conrad the whole time. I did not like book Jeremiah. I got to choose. Yeah, I guess TV Jeremiah was a little bit better, but still, I’m not a love triangle. And my lovely co writer, I love her so much. She’s my best friend since I was six, but she made us write a love triangle into our books, and I was not happy with her. And to this day, to this day, should we still make jokes about it? Because she loves a love triangle. I think this goes back to like, like, the Twilight days, you know.

Kaycee 21:16
Yes.

Samantha 21:17
And I was like, What is this? Why do we like this? And why do you think people like this?

Speaker 1 21:22
Yeah, I think that it was the twilight of it all that really put me off of it to begin with.

Samantha 21:28
I don’t know what people see in it, so if you’re out there, maybe you can let us know, because neither of us are getting it. We’re not getting it. And normally when there’s a love triangle, I want them both to be gone, because I don’t think you like either of them enough if it’s an actual love triangle. I think that’s where I’m at with it.

Kaycee 21:43
I’m like, choose yourself.

Samantha 21:44
Yes, yes, wow. Let’s see one end like that. Choose Yourself. Love that. Oh, that’s so good. Okay, and another writing idea. Fake dating.

Kaycee 21:53
Great. I love it. I love it so much. You know, Peter Kavinsky into All the Boys I’ve Loved Before is just my ultimate like, YA book boyfriend.

Samantha 22:03
He is a great YA book boyfriend, and he was cast so well in the show that, yeah, I was very impressed by the casting.

Kaycee 22:11
He was even more charming in the show than he was in the book.

Samantha 22:14
I agree. I agree. I was, yeah, no, he was fantastic. My pick was, I think Lynn painter does this in such a great way, I don’t think I actually like this trope. Technically, I don’t think it’s realistic, like 90% of the time. However, so many authors that have done this have made me a believer, because they’ve done it so well that I end up liking it because I’m like, I don’t like this trope, but this book was so good that, I guess, you know, I guess I enjoyed this. So I did have to all the boys written down, but you hit on that. So that’s great. Lynn painter is better than the movies, and betting on you both used fake dating and did it really well. And then, most recently, dungeons and drama by Kristy Boyce, fantastic book, did fake dating really well.

Kaycee 23:00
yeah, I agree that it’s it’s not as authentic, and I don’t, it’s hard to make it such an organic situation, because a lot of times I’m like, okay, I get that. We want to be here, but like, the lead up to this doesn’t work for me. So I really need to check out those books you recommend.

Samantha 23:15
It’s like, why do you need to fake date? I don’t understand. But every once in a while they’ll find like a fun reason, or like a reason that kind of makes them like, All right, yeah. All right. This is fine. It’s usually to make somebody jealous, in which case I’m like, okay. All right, yeah, I get that.

Kaycee 23:33
That is fun.

Samantha 23:36
All right, I had trouble with this one, so we’ll see how you did. Best Friend, sister or brother or brother’s best friend, which are different people were fighting about this when I was looking it up, I did not realize this was such a, you know, hot button issue, but apparently that everyone’s like, No, I want brother’s best friend, not best friend’s brother. Okay. Oh, realize it’s such a difference. Okay, so what did you find?

Kaycee 24:01
I could not think of anything for this one.

Samantha 24:04
It’s hard, right? I think this is more an adult romance than ya, but it was listed in YA a bunch of times. The only thing I found was saying anything from Sarah Dustin,

Kaycee 24:14
Oh, of course, yeah. And even that, I didn’t like think of it as I mean, there was conflict surrounding the fact that she was dating her best friend’s brother, which is also one of my favorite books. So I can’t believe I didn’t even think of that. But,

Samantha 24:29
you know, it just goes when you’re trying to think of it. It’s the only thing I could think of that really made sense. But when she met the three of them, it felt like they all sort of became friendly at the same time, even though she obviously had a preference, I can’t remember their names to save my life for one of them, and that became her best friend. Sure, I didn’t feel like she wasn’t friends with the brother too to begin with.

Kaycee 24:54
Yeah, she was friends with the brother for sure. So I would that’s probably, in my mind, I considered that more of a like a friend to lovers situation.

Samantha 25:01
yeah, that could definitely work as well. So yeah, I don’t think I have, like, a strong opinion one way or another on this one.

Kaycee 25:09
I don’t either.

Samantha 25:10
It’s just kind of there. I think people think it’s like a forbidden thing, you know, but I don’t know. I’m on the do what you want to do team. How about second chance?

Kaycee 25:21
I really like this one. And the book that I was thinking of was We Can’t Keep Meeting Like This by Rachel Lynn Solomon. I actually chose this book when I was first reading it because of the cover. It’s so it’s super cute. This boy and girl. There’s a wedding cake in between them, because she works for a catering company. He works for, I think, the bakery. And so they’re always running into each other at these wedding events, and they’ve been doing this forever, and then, you know, she kind of confesses she likes him, and he never says anything back. And then it’s like, a year later, and she’s trying to avoid him at all costs. But, of course, very cute.

Samantha 26:01
I hear about her books all the time, but I haven’t gotten into any yet, and I feel like this is the year 2025. Is the year that I need to get myself into some Rachel Lynn Sullivan. Okay, so I love this trope with adult books. Some of my favorite adult books are second chance. I loved happy place by Emily Henry. I loved every summer after by Carly fortune. Like some of these books are my favorites, but second chance in YA, I have not found anything that I thought was good. The only thing I could think of was never vacation with your ex and the authors. It’s the duo that Emily Pemberley, Austin, whatever I can’t I can’t remember his last name off the top of my head, I didn’t like it. I I think it was the characters. The girl was just a little too I don’t know if it was in herself or just not as well rounded as I guess I wanted her to be. So was not a fan. So I know I like this trope, but I have not found any, YA, that I think is good. So maybe somebody out there could tell us about a good second chance YA, because I don’t know what it is.

Kaycee 27:12
It definitely works better, I think, for an adult level, because you have time and space in between. You know, when these people were first together, first knew each other, and then later on, when you’re a teenager, time is just so smushed together.

Samantha 27:29
It’s like oh, it’s been a month.

Kaycee 27:30
Yeah.

Samantha 27:30
That’s not yeah chance. I also kept seeing every time I would search young adult second chance and love. In other words, just kept coming up and kept coming up, and I’m like, This is not YA. You can continue to come up and be a search result, but that is not YA. So I just kept, kept going. I didn’t mind that book. I am not on the like some people are, like, very much stans of that book, you know, yeah, feel like kind of neutral about it. But I didn’t think it was bad. I just thought there were some problems with it that I didn’t love. But not YA, I don’t know about you, but I’m searching for these books, right? I’m like, Well, young adult first love, and it would come up and oh my goodness, I’m looking at that’s not YA. I found myself getting angry,.

Kaycee 28:15
It’s very frustrating looking for like tropes in ya in particular, because you are getting a lot of those, even, like new adults and older books. And it’s like, this, isn’t, YA, we want pure teenagers, falling in love,

Samantha 28:31
yeah. And I don’t want them in college. I know that’s, you know, sometimes part of it, I just don’t want them in college. And I don’t want them above that. I have to do a whole episode about this eventually. It’s like, been on my mind lately, and I’m like, I have to do this. So yeah, that was my sort of irritation with this one. The next one we have listed is first love. What do you think about that?

Kaycee 28:51
I don’t think it works as much of a trope in YA because most of them are first loves.

Samantha 28:57
I Googled to find the list, and then I went through like, a couple and kind of like compared notes, and it was on all of the lists. So I was like, okay, but as I started looking into it more, and I’m like, writing down, I’m like, No, these are all, every single book on this list. Basically it’s first love, right?

Kaycee 29:15
Yeah.

Samantha 29:15
Okay, so obviously you probably like this trope if you’re reading YA.

Kaycee 29:20
yeah, if you’re reading YA romance, definitely, because I do, I love reading about first loves, but I think that that’s just most YA romances. I don’t I don’t think that a lot of them are like, Oh, this is my first love, and this is my second love, you know. But I do think that this is really well done in forever, by Judy Blume, because it really takes you on this journey of a first love, which is like a really immature at times, but really sweet at times, and forever is just one of the best YA books.

Samantha 29:54
Oh yeah, it’s such a classic. Have you read the Jason Reynolds flip of it yet?

Kaycee 30:00
No, I didn’t even know.

Samantha 30:02
So Jason Reynolds’ most recent book. I think it’s called, 24 seconds from now. Um, you might have to look that up. And, you know, don’t quote me there. I just think that’s what it’s called. Is basically he took Judy Blume’s forever and flipped it to a male perspective. And it’s super interesting. Yeah, I enjoyed it. But then I decided that, as I’m, like, reading, I decided I did not want to know what was going on in his head during that time. Like, I’m like, halfway through the book and I’m like, Okay, wait, this is not this is something I did not know I did not want.

Kaycee 30:35
Yeah, I don’t think I would connect with that as well, because I was a teenage girl, so I really connected with the feelings that Judy – and Judy Blume just writes teenage feelings like,

Samantha 30:45
oh yeah,

Kaycee 30:45
no other in the world

Samantha 30:49
Yeah. But I’m glad it exists. I’m sure it’s great for young men to have access to that, but I’m reading it, and I’m like, Okay, this isn’t for me.

Kaycee 30:57
Absolutely for me.

Samantha 30:59
Okay, we’ve got opposites attract.

Kaycee 31:00
I could not, for the life of me, think of a YA book for this one. I feel like it’s so big in adult romance, but I think I would say that sometimes in those enemies to lovers type books, you have these complete opposites that end up falling in love, but it’s never like a central theme.

Samantha 31:21
Agreed. Yeah, I don’t think it’s showcased as highly in YA as it is an adult, I could not think of a single one. But then, as you say that, I go back and look at my old list, and I’m like, Oh, yeah. You know, some of these enemies to lovers ones, they are opposites. So could be the same thing? Yeah, I agree. I like that trope, but I don’t necessarily know that I see it in YA, a whole lot.

Kaycee 31:44
Yeah,

Samantha 31:44
forced proximity. And this is another one.

Kaycee 31:47
I was like, I cannot think of one. I cannot think of, I feel like, because in my mind, it’s first proximity is really that one bed problem, which is not really a problem in YA, you don’t, you don’t get that trope.

Samantha 32:01
I’ve seen it in YA. Lynn painter did it in her most recent YA. And again, the name escapes me. It might, it might be betting on you.

Kaycee 32:11
That makes me excited, because I do want to read it. I just, I haven’t seen a lot of it.

Samantha 32:15
I don’t, I don’t remember. I’d have to double check. But it’s the most recent one from now that she that she wrote that was, YA, there was a one bed trope in there. And I was like, Oh, you’re funny. You’re doing this in YA, this is funny. So I keep thinking, and I’m like, well, some of it is forced proximity, because a lot of books take place in high school.

Kaycee 32:34
Sure. Yeah,

Samantha 32:35
that’s force proximity. I picked the inheritance games because basically they pluck this girl out of obscurity, and she’s now, like, in the race for this billionaire’s inheritance with all of his grandsons. And so that is for sure. Yeah, no, it’s it is good fun. That series is just good fun. But they keep making books on it, and I’m like, All right, we’re done. I don’t know if we’re on five or six or whatever, but we’re done.

Kaycee 33:04
That definitely makes me think of how much I loved a book set at a boarding school when I was a teenager, and that’s definitely where I would find more of the forced proximity in YA.

Samantha 33:15
Do you have a favorite boarding school? What’s your favorite boarding school?

Kaycee 33:18
Um, I can’t think of any, but I just, I just loved it so much.

Samantha 33:23
Truly devious is one of my favorite boarding school books.

Kaycee 33:27
Oh, yes, of course. I just read that so good. I interviewed Maureen Johnson.

Samantha 33:33
Oh, I saw, I remember seeing that. It’s amazing

Kaycee 33:36
so, and she was delightful. So those are such great books.

Samantha 33:40
I just read another one. It’s called Royal heirs Academy by Lindsay Duga.

Kaycee 33:46
Ooh.

Samantha 33:46
It was so good. I mean, American Royals, slash, the inheritance game, slash, flipped on its head. Like, fantastic boarding school. Like, it was great. It was great. I’m going to be yelling about it for a while now. So good. All right, we are on our last one, which is hidden identity.

Kaycee 34:07
I don’t read a ton of fantasy books, and I feel like this is definitely more of a fantasy genre. There are some books that are like undercover singer or actor or something, but I would definitely say that this one is more of a fantasy based

Samantha 34:23
Yeah the only one I could think of, like contemporary esque, was XOXO by Axio. And I think he was a, like a k pop star,

Kaycee 34:32
yes, like that. Yeah, that was exactly the one that I was thinking of as well.

Samantha 34:35
It was, I didn’t love it, but I’m sure teenagers would, would love it. It would just didn’t do it for me,

Kaycee 34:41
because who doesn’t, who doesn’t want to accidentally date a celebrity, right?

Samantha 34:45
Yeah, totally. Except I don’t want what comes from that after, I don’t think I needt anyone, like chasing me down with any cameras, or getting into my life or like anything like that. I’m good. So I picked a fantasy, but it’s kind of romantic, so we’re going so we’re gonna bend the rules a little. I picked a five the night by Bridget Kemmer, it’s a fantastic gotcha too. Like, it’s you, you as the reader, do not know what’s going on until something big happens, and then you’re like, oh, oh. Like, okay, so yeah, she, she does it really well, and that’s an amazing series.

Kaycee 35:21
I was gonna say, because I feel like some of these hidden identity ones, when you start reading, you’re like, Oh, well, this is, this is that first, and I get it. So that’s really high praise. I might have to check that out.

Samantha 35:32
I had like, an inkling, but I was like, No. And then when it happened, I was like, oh, oh, okay, all right. I see where you’re going here. And it was, it was wonderful. It was a, I love when a book gets me, like, because I didn’t see it coming. And, you know, it’s just, it’s fun. But I don’t like when thrillers get me because I don’t want anyone to die. Like, we’re not, I’m not into that. But like, if you can give me, like, a gotcha, but everyone’s still okay, good with that. I just get – thrillers scare me. And I just, I don’t know, this is probably why I’m a romance reader. Because Okay, so we chatted about all of our tropes today. Any final thoughts on tropes overall?

Kaycee 36:14
I just, I really love a good trope. I think it’s such a fun way to bring readers into new books that they might not have checked out before, because they’re like, Oh, I like, you know, I like a friends to lovers or I like a forced proximity and hearing that a book has that might, you know, make them want to read more books. And I there’s nothing I love more than an excuse to read more books.

Samantha 36:39
I love that that’s a great final thought. Tell people where they can catch up with you.

Kaycee 36:44
So you can find me on my website, retrospect dash publishing.com, also at Kaycee Racer on Instagram, if you want to – I’m writing a book this year that should be out by the end of the year. So I have some new stuff coming out there.

Samantha 36:59
Can you tease us a little, give us a little little sneak

Kaycee 37:04
Sure this one actually has – should I, should I do it through some, some of the tropes?

Samantha 37:09
Sure.

Kaycee 37:10
So this kind of has a baddish girl, goodish boy.

Samantha 37:15
That’s fun.

Kaycee 37:16
Definitely a – this is one we didn’t talk about. Grumpy sunshine,

Samantha 37:21
yes, that’s a good

Kaycee 37:22
kind of situation. And it’s just, it’s about a girl who’s gotten herself into some trouble and is kind of trying to navigate her life after the fact. And a lot of stuff comes out that, you know, you figure out along the way. But she also, this is my selling point. She works at her family’s old motel called the starlight motel, and in the past, there was mysterious happenings there. And so she’s also kind of trying to figure out what is happening.

Samantha 37:53
Oh, like, maybe, like a little ghost hunting, kind of, in 1975 oh, so, like, a true crime, old kind of, you know, investigation.

Kaycee 38:03
It’s a small element, but it’s my favorite thing that I I added it the less I was like, Oh, this sounds fun.

Samantha 38:09
I love when those little nuggets come up and you get to slide them in there, and they just make the story that much more layered. All right, cool. So we’re going to do a quick lightning round. I do this with all of my guests. And I did not prep Kaycee for this at all. She didn’t even know it was coming. So here we go. I’m excited. Question number one, what is the book that made you a joyful reader?

Kaycee 38:29
Um, whew, okay, my mind just went absolutely blank. But can I say a book series?

Samantha 38:36
Sure, yeah.

Kaycee 38:36
Because honestly, the Sweet Valley kids books are one of the first chapter books that I was ever given as a child. And I followed those twins, those, you know, trouble making twins, all throughout their lives, from when they were elementary to middle to high school. And I still just whenever I’m feeling down, read an old Sweet Valley High paperback, and it’s just so nostalgic for me. So I think that those are what made me a reader, and I’ve always just been a joyful reader. So nice.

Samantha 39:08
Love that. Number two, what is the last five star book you read?

Kaycee 39:12
Ooh, okay, can I look at my on my Goodreads?

Samantha 39:18
Sure,

Kaycee 39:19
I feel like my brain always goes blank, whatever. I’m like, Wait, what was the last thing I read?

Samantha 39:23
Yeah, right. I’m like, I don’t know.

Kaycee 39:26
Okay, I would actually say – this is a very, very short story by Alice Hoffman, who wrote the Practical Magic books,

Samantha 39:34
okay.

Kaycee 39:34
And it’s called conjure, and it’s literally, like, 12 pages long, but in those 12 pages, the fact that she just like smushes so much good story about these two teenage girls into this. And it’s fabulous.

Samantha 39:48
I love that.

Kaycee 39:48
Highly recommend.

Samantha 39:49
I love when an author can do something big in such a little, you know, a short amount of time. That’s such a great skill. Uh, last lightning round question, are you a physical book, e-reader, or audiobook, person?

Kaycee 40:01
Physical book above all else, but I’ll read on everything.

Samantha 40:05
I love how common that answer is. I feel like every single person I’ve asked has been like, I love a physical book, but I’ll do just about anything at this point. Thank you so much for being here with us today, Kaycee. I appreciate your time and your expertise.

Kaycee 40:19
Thank you so much for having me. This was so much fun.

Samantha 40:22
That wraps up our conversation on romance tropes with the wonderful Kaycee racer. From love triangles and enemies to lovers to those unforgettable slow burn romances we’ve loved dissecting what makes these stories so irresistible. A huge thank you to Kaycee for joining us and sharing her thoughtful insights on storytelling, YA classics, and all things romance. If you haven’t already, be sure to check out her books and tune in to nostalgic nightcaps for more retro media nostalgia and thoughtful conversations. As always, thank you for listening and happy reading.

Samantha 40:54
Thanks for tuning in to creating joyful readers. I hope you found inspiration and practical strategies to ignite a passion for reading in your students. Remember every book we introduce and every reading experience we foster can transform lives and help students become lifelong readers. Follow me on social media at Samantha in Secondary for more tips book recommendations and to connect with a community of educators dedicated to making reading a joyful journey. Until next time, happy reading.